Friday, July 14, 2006
I once challenged a statement that Brian Simmons made in class, okay, so I challenged more than one, Brian wanted us to challenge him, if we could do so logically. Anyway, Brian said that animals are incapable of emotion, that our belief in that ability is personification. I gave some examples, but in my heart, I think it is like the people who claim that God is without emotion. They think that to claim that God feels emotion is to make God need us in some way, that having feelings means that he can be manipulated. The problem is that these people, who accuse others of forming God in the shape of man, are doing exactly that. They assume that God's feelings are like a human's feelings in that God is at their whim, in some way. I, on the other hand, believe that God feels deeply, that his heart is often broken, that he cries with us but that God's tears do not force him to ride their waves, rather, God seeks to act in the manner that is best in all ways.
I only bring it up because my (sister's) cat, Pookey, proved to me that he has emotions tonight. He was howling as loud as he could, so I went down to comfort him. I think that he wanted to come inside, I think because he is lonely for human company and he feels neglected since we have not been able to spend a great deal of time with him. Those suspicions about his feelings, however, are not my evidence for emotion from a cat.
After petting him for 10 or 15 minutes, I told him good bye, words and tones he recognizes, since I tell him that every time I leave him. Until I said that, he was sitting quietly and purring, as soon as I said it, he jumped up and went to block me off from the door. I said, "No." softly, but firmly. He looked up at me, and here's my evidence, he did not swat at me, or whine, he HISSED at me, for telling him 'no.' Therefore I believe that animals possess emotion, but they lack the ability, as far as I have been able to observe, to overcome the power of their emotions by planning, logic and rational thought, which should make them different than people, but, in my experience, most people lack those abilities too, myself included.
I only bring it up because my (sister's) cat, Pookey, proved to me that he has emotions tonight. He was howling as loud as he could, so I went down to comfort him. I think that he wanted to come inside, I think because he is lonely for human company and he feels neglected since we have not been able to spend a great deal of time with him. Those suspicions about his feelings, however, are not my evidence for emotion from a cat.
After petting him for 10 or 15 minutes, I told him good bye, words and tones he recognizes, since I tell him that every time I leave him. Until I said that, he was sitting quietly and purring, as soon as I said it, he jumped up and went to block me off from the door. I said, "No." softly, but firmly. He looked up at me, and here's my evidence, he did not swat at me, or whine, he HISSED at me, for telling him 'no.' Therefore I believe that animals possess emotion, but they lack the ability, as far as I have been able to observe, to overcome the power of their emotions by planning, logic and rational thought, which should make them different than people, but, in my experience, most people lack those abilities too, myself included.
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Hey Ty, came across the Blog today.
http://www.hypotyposeis.org/weblog/
It's right up your allay my friend.
http://www.hypotyposeis.org/weblog/
It's right up your allay my friend.
# posted by 
: 7/14/2006 2:23 AM
: 7/14/2006 2:23 AM
How dare you disagree with Brian Simmons!?! Some would consider that nigh unto blasphemy . . . I on the other hand aplaud your gaul. Stick it to the man!
I do think that your logic is somewhat weak in this particular area, however. Just because an animal has learned how to elicit a response from human beings does not signify that animals have emotions. Unfortunately, there is no argument that cannot be rebuffed by the claim of anthropomorphism. Ultimately, logic cannot lead us to a conclusion on this issue since we have no logical point from which to proceed (define emotions for me . . .).
I do think that your logic is somewhat weak in this particular area, however. Just because an animal has learned how to elicit a response from human beings does not signify that animals have emotions. Unfortunately, there is no argument that cannot be rebuffed by the claim of anthropomorphism. Ultimately, logic cannot lead us to a conclusion on this issue since we have no logical point from which to proceed (define emotions for me . . .).
If you look to animals in nature they do exhibit emotions. Some may call it instinct. My dog smiles. Don't know why she just does. My cat is very fond of being brushed. It feels good. Until I hit that 'one' spot. Having worked in the Vet world for 13 years I do believe that they have feelings and emotions. I don't believe they have a soul as we do. But they are living beings. I find it hard to believe that God would give us critters without some of these attributes otherwise why not just have a pet rock. But remember even rocks cry out.
Pookie probably hissed at you because he's peeved that you don't know how to spell the stupid name you gave him.
Thanks Sanderson, Carlson is a great guy, I used to enjoy his comments on the (now deceased) TC-List. I'm not as interested in the synoptic problem or the historical Jesus issue as he is, but I share his interest in understanding Jesus and how he effects theology.
Rush and James, I wrote a post on Blogum Nemo Legit about why I believe God has emotion.
Dody, I don't see how anyone can spend a great deal of time around animals and not believe that they feel emotions of some kind. In the end Brian and I were able to agree that the issue of animal emotion is not a matter of quantity (whether or not some animals have emotion of some kind) but of quality (animals have a different type of emotion, but they surely have some type of emotion.
I wonder if angels have this argument about us (if they have emotions): "Do people really have emotions? they obviously don't have our type of emotion, but they certainly seem to have something."
As for animal souls: I can't find scripture that speaks against it in a meaningful way. In fact, Pauls discussion of different types of flesh, in I cor 15.39-49, may indicate that animals have a soul, but obviously different in type than the human soul. I'm not completely convinced, one way or another, but I'd hesitate to rule it out.
Rush and James, I wrote a post on Blogum Nemo Legit about why I believe God has emotion.
Dody, I don't see how anyone can spend a great deal of time around animals and not believe that they feel emotions of some kind. In the end Brian and I were able to agree that the issue of animal emotion is not a matter of quantity (whether or not some animals have emotion of some kind) but of quality (animals have a different type of emotion, but they surely have some type of emotion.
I wonder if angels have this argument about us (if they have emotions): "Do people really have emotions? they obviously don't have our type of emotion, but they certainly seem to have something."
As for animal souls: I can't find scripture that speaks against it in a meaningful way. In fact, Pauls discussion of different types of flesh, in I cor 15.39-49, may indicate that animals have a soul, but obviously different in type than the human soul. I'm not completely convinced, one way or another, but I'd hesitate to rule it out.
i'm glad that I have someone smart on my side. Once, the four of us (me seth prancer and boomer) went to Boise. Only me and Prancer came home at that time because Seth was coming back with his brother and boomer. Prancer cried and looked out the back window from about Horseshoe Bend when she realized that we were going home until we got to Lewiston. Do you understand that this is 5 hours. She was so very sad until he came home. I know she is crying for me still...
p.s. I don't know who this Brian Rusher is, but I sure do like his mad craziness at signification...
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